Omnisend is an omnichannel marketing automation SaaS that helps small- and medium-sized e-commerce retailers better execute retention marketing strategies. When CEO and co-founder Rytis Lauris was first interviewed by Latka in 2018, he reported earning $180,000 in monthly revenue with an ARR of $2 million.
During their second interview in 2019, Rytis said Omnisend’s MRR had grown to $550,000 alongside an impressive 325% increase to $6.5 million annually.
So how did they do it? Customer expansion was a big part of it — between 2018 and 2019 Omnisend’s customer base went from 3,000 customers paying an average of $60 per month to 7,200 customers paying an average of $75 per month.
And driving that growth?
Besides brand awareness and SEO, Rytis said increasing the ACV by 25%, then going upmarket and hunting larger customers played a role, especially since those bigger customers have a much lower churn rate.
But ultimately, the increase of more than 4,000 customers was due in large part to a partnership with Shopify. Without MailChimp as a competitor in its category on Shopify’s app store, Omnisend’s near five-star-rated service received more promotion and higher rankings.
“In the SaaS email marketing or marketing automation category, we’re number one on Shopify,” explains Rytis, “so it drives us a lot of traffic from there.”
Traffic varies, but at the time of this interview, Omnisend gained 20,000 new website visitors per month from its visibility on Shopify. That traffic generated 1,200 to 2,000 new trials for the email marketing SaaS, which Rytis says about 400 turned into paying customers.
With a three-month payback period and a $225 CAC, Omnisend has an annual churn rate of 60% — however, its expansion rate of 70% earns the company a healthy 110% net revenue retention.
Source: GetLatka
Omnisend combines lifecycle marketing and campaigns with email marketing to help e-commerce marketers surpass generic tools. Dubbing the platform an “entire suite of tools for your retention marketing in one place,” Rytis says it also connects channels like email, SMS, Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, as well as Facebook and Google ads.
“You have a single customer profile and you can choose the better channel to [reach out to] your customers in the most effective way.”
Apart from providing a useful service to its customers, Omnisend also strives to support its 51 employees as the company grows.
In addition to a generous referral program, Rytis shares, “We kind of constantly increase our salaries, and it’s linked with the company results. Every quarter we have a goal for our MRR growth, in general, so if we achieve that goal, the salaries grow again.”
Having mostly paid back the $160,000 it raised in an angel round, Omnisend is sharply focused on profitability.
With its steady growth plus bootstrapped and cashflow positive-status, Omnisend is a worthy portfolio asset — does it run the risk of being bought out?
According to Rytis, not a chance.
What is Omnisend’s annual revenue?
In 2019, Omnisend generated $6.5 million in ARR.
What is Omnisend’s monthly revenue?
In 2019, Omnisend generated $550,000 in MRR.
Who is the CEO of Omnisend?
Rytis Lauris is the CEO and co-founder of Omnisend.
Transcript Excerpts
Even with successful conversions, better outreach is needed
“We have challenges to increase the top of the funnel, but [our] conversion rate is really, really good. So, we kind of managed to get visitors, which are really willing to at least try this out. We don’t have problems with conversion, but our challenge currently is really to expand the top of the funnel into outreach more.”
Strategies to promote business expansion
“Larger customers, we intend to expand. We do charge for the size of your subscriber’s list. Usually, for sustainable established businesses, they grow their list, and therefore, by paying us well. Another thing is we’re upgrading from Standard to Pro plan, so it’s 2.5 times more [of an] expensive plan. We’re adding better features on the Pro plan and convincing them to move pro.
Driving website traffic with mostly organic methods
“It’s a lot of organic and a lot of SEO, a lot of listings, like G2, Capterra, GetApp; we are working with those. We do have some paid, like with Retail Dive, [plus] other initiatives, like we publish good quality content and they drive leads for us as well.”
A win-win solution: top-notch talent + competitive salaries
“I remember myself and my co-founder were [saying] that we would like to have the ability to pay like Netflix does, paying the best salaries in the market, and hiring the best talents in the market. At that time, that was not possible for us. But we’re kind of heading towards that direction. It’s still going to take some time, but that’s our dream to the have best talents.”
Full Transcript Nathan Latka: Hello everyone. My guest today is Rytis Lauris. He’s the co-founder and CEO of OmniSend, the powerful marketing automation platform that’s focused on moving e-commerce marketers beyond the generic email marketing tools. All right, Rytis. You ready to take us to the top? Rytis Lauris: Yeah, of course, Nathan. Nice to be here again. Nathan Latka: You made the mistake of telling me that you were a listener to the show, which means I don’t have to do any work. Just tell me all your data right now. Rytis Lauris: Okay. Sure. Okay. So what should I start from? We have a great [crosstalk 00:00:27]. Nathan Latka: Rytis, I’m just kidding. I’m kidding. I’m kidding. All right. So if you guys want- Rytis Lauris: Nathan, let’s start with the famous five now. Nathan Latka: There you go. All right. Hey, for people that missed your first interview, marketing in general, marketing tools, it’s very fragmented. What space specifically are you targeting? Rytis Lauris: Yeah, that’s a good question. So we are targeting towards e-commerce side. So those who sell online, mainly physical goods, we help those online retailers, merchants, to better do their retention marketing. Nathan Latka: Interesting. Rytis Lauris: Communicating with existing customers. Nathan Latka: Okay. Very good. And is this basically a better version of Lifecycle emails? Rytis Lauris: Yeah, similar to that. We do combine Lifecycle. We do add campaigns on top, and part of emails. We have started as email service provider. Currently, OmniSend is email service provider on top. We have text messages. We do have Facebook Messenger messages. We do have WhatsApp, and synchronization with Facebook and Google ads. Rytis Lauris: So it’s kind of entire suit of tools for your retention marketing in one place. And you have single customer profile, and can choose the better channel to outreach your customers in the most effective way. Nathan Latka: Now you shared last time, you launched in 2014. At that time, you had about 3,000 customers. That was about a year ago. How many customers today? Rytis Lauris: Yeah. More than 7,000. Nathan Latka: That’s amazing. Okay, good. And then what are they paying on- Rytis Lauris: They are paying once. Yeah, paying once. Nathan Latka: Sorry, say that again. Rytis Lauris: Yeah, paying once. We talk about paying once. Nathan Latka: What do mean, paying? Oh, paying customers. Rytis Lauris: Yeah. We are freedom model, so we have more active installs. But, one year ago, there were 3,000 paying customers. Now, we have more than 7,000. Nathan Latka: And are they all still paying an average of, call it, $60 a month? Rytis Lauris: More. 75 now. Nathan Latka: 75. Rytis Lauris: Yeah, We have not managed to include that trick, which is a [inaudible 00:02:22]. As last year, I told that we are … At that time, we have starting to go up market, and hunting after larger customers. We are succeeding by doing that. But ACV has increased by 25%, which is quite a good number. And it continued to grow month on month, that ACV. So it’s just great. Nathan Latka: Rytis, you know I’m going to do the math. 7,000 customers, 75 bucks a month, that puts you out $520,000 a month in revenue. Is that right? Or are you a little below that? Rytis Lauris: A bit more. A bit more than that. So, being precise, 7,200 paying customers. Nathan Latka: All right. But is that number right? Last month you did about $550,000? Rytis Lauris: Yeah. Something like that, yeah. Nathan Latka: Rytis, I mean, that’s really impressive growth. Just about 11 months ago, you told me you’re doing around $180,000 a month. Rytis Lauris: Yeah, that’s correct. Nathan Latka: I mean, that’s incredible growth. How did you drive that growth? Rytis Lauris: Two factors here, one is going up market, increasing our ACV, and then hunting larger customers, as I have shared. One year ago, I have shared that those larger customers, their churn is much lower. Rytis Lauris: So, currently, we do have negative churn on average. It’s just small, a little bit below the zero, but it’s 0.8 minus negative net churn, which is great. So we now are retaining more paying customers, it’s one thing. So hunting larger, and there another very important factor for us. So it’s a clash between Shopify and MailChimp. Nathan Latka: Yeah. Okay. So you would credit most of your growth to you moved up market a bit. But you also added, over the past 11 months, another 3,200 customers. Where are you adding so many customers from? How are you finding them? Rytis Lauris: Yeah, so we have worked a lot on brand awareness, general findability, SEO, as well as Shopify, which is important and platform for us. So I’m not sure how much are familiar, but Shopify and MailChimp, they had a clash. And MailChimp is not long anymore available on Shopify app store. You can use third party apps integrated, always do tools, but there’s no native integration in place anymore. So it drives a lot of traffic for us on top of a funnel. Nathan Latka: How much per month? Rytis Lauris: It really varies. It depends on Shopify have their rankings, and sometimes you’re being more promoting, sometimes a bit less. So there is no- Nathan Latka: Give me a general range last month. How much traffic from Shopify, and how many new trials? Rytis Lauris: Ah, that’s a good question. I don’t know of a specific number currently. Nathan Latka: While you’re looking that up, I’m going to read the listener. I’ll let you look up that data over here. But, guys, when I go to OmniSend on the Shopify app store, what you see is they’ve done a great job getting reviews, over 3,000 reviews, a 4.8 average out of 5. So I imagine you rank pretty high, Rytis. Rytis Lauris: Yeah, that’s correct. And especially an email marketing category, or marketing automation category, what we’d call it, to we’re number one on Shopify. So it drives us a lot of traffic from there. Nathan Latka: Yeah. I’m going to categories, marketing, and then email marketing. And what you’re saying is MailChimp used to be kind of the number one. You are now ranked … Now, how do you rank? When you say number one, you mean number of ratings, or the average of the 4.8? Rytis Lauris: Yeah. 4.8, well, in position. Shopify has algorithms. So you see the ranking, which you have not been logged in. So if you log in, Shopify has kind of, based on relevancy, what do they recommend on the app store, in which position. So we’re usually kind of ended our position in the listing, in the recommendation list. Nathan Latka: Yeah. This is interesting. So you’re up there with Privy, who we’ve had on the show, and PageFly Advanced Page Builder, ReConvert Post Purchase Upsell. They’re kind of point solutions for different things a Shopify owner might need. Rytis Lauris: Yeah, that’s correct. Then if you go on the homepage, like apps to Shopify.com. Yeah. So the rest kind of talking the marketing solutions, and it varies. It depends on how you’re logged in or not. So OmniSend is being quite usually promoting as the best option for [crosstalk 00:06:53]. Nathan Latka: So, as a company altogether, with all of your channels, how much traffic are you getting per month, and how many new free trials? Rytis Lauris: Yes. So free trials, currently we do get. Let me check that number. Yeah. The month it varies, like 1,200 to 2,000 free trials. Nathan Latka: Okay. And how much and how much traffic generates the 1200 new trials? Rytis Lauris: Traffic, you mean [crosstalk 00:07:20] website? Nathan Latka: Like website hits. Rytis Lauris: Yeah, to website. Yeah, again, it varies. But it’s around 20,000 visitors. Nathan Latka: Okay. So you have about, what is that, a 5% conversion rate? Something like that. Rytis Lauris: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nathan Latka: That’s good. Rytis Lauris: So we have challenges to increase the top of the funnel, but conversion rate is really, really good. So we kind of managed to get visitors, which are really willing to at least try this out. And, yeah, so we don’t have problems with conversion. But our challenges currently is really to expand the top of the funnel into outreach more. Nathan Latka: So let’s keep going on. 20,000 visitors a month, 1200 new trials. Of those trials, how many convert to paid, typically? Rytis Lauris: Let me check. I have some statistics here. So the month, [inaudible 00:08:22]. Nathan Latka: What tool do you use, by the way, to track all this? Rytis Lauris: ChartMogul, yeah, which is really good. And once you’re going to ask, and then would I recommend those, that tool, or one specific tool. So I would say, yeah, this is very handy. Still a lot of bugs in the tool, but they’re getting better, which is really great. Yeah. In terms of subscribers, so let’s say [crosstalk 00:08:49]. Nathan Latka: How many new customers last month? Rytis Lauris: Yeah, new paying customers was around like 400. Nathan Latka: Okay. Again, that’s pretty good. 400 on 1200, that’s almost a 30% conversion rate from trial to paid. So, yeah, your problem is how do you get more top of funnel. Rytis Lauris: Yeah, that’s correct. Nathan Latka: Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Now, when you look at your full funnel, what do you paying, fully weighted, to get a new $75 a month customer? Rytis Lauris: Yeah. So our pay back period is around three months. So you can [inaudible 00:09:12]. Nathan Latka: Yeah. What is that, $225, right? Where are you spending most of that money? Rytis Lauris: So mainly it’s SEO, re-marketing, re-marketing channels. We do pay commission for our partners. Nathan Latka: What’s the commission typically, like 30%? Rytis Lauris: Oh, yeah, up to 30%, starting from 10 and going up to 30. Nathan Latka: And do you pay that in perpetuity, or only for the first year? Rytis Lauris: It depends. We have two different programs. One is kind of referral program, which is really generous. So we pay three times what the lead pays for first time. So 300% on the first payment. It’s just one-off thing. It’s mainly for referrals, bloggers, etc, influencers. And we have perpetual program for agencies. Nathan Latka: So if a new customer, a referral person sends you an annual contract at 75 bucks a month, so let’s just make it easy, $900, you pay them three times that? Rytis Lauris: Per month. So it’s monthly. So we pay, it’s 220 or so. Nathan Latka: I see, I see. Okay. That makes more sense. Okay. Very good. And, last month, how much total did you pay out to referral partners? Rytis Lauris: It was not much. It was around, yeah, 10,000. Nathan Latka: Okay. That’s not too bad. And, when you look at all your retargeting, and all your direct paid stuff, how much was that last month? Rytis Lauris: Yeah, that’s very good question. I mean, yeah, the expenditure was around 678, varies, 6, 7,000 a month. [crosstalk 00:10:46]. Nathan Latka: Okay. This is very, very little compared to your $550,000 monthly of top line. So you’re not doing a ton of paid stuff. It’s a lot of organic. Rytis Lauris: Yeah. It’s a lot of organic and a lot of SEO for it. A lot of listings, like G2, Capterra, GetApp. We are working with those. We do have some paid, like retail dive of initiatives, like good quality content. We publish good quality content. And we drive leads for us as well. Nathan Latka: Yeah. Are you on the paid portion of G2 Crowd, or the free one? Rytis Lauris: Yes. Yes. On paid. Nathan Latka: Paid. Yeah. So, I mean, is that four or five grand a month, something like that? Rytis Lauris: It’s small. It’s small. I’m not sure. It’s like 10 to 12 something, something in that range. I guess it’s kind of 12, but we managed to negotiate a little bit. Nathan Latka: Yep. And if you’re paying $12,000 a month, do you know what you’re paying per trial from G2 Crowd? Rytis Lauris: So we have just started two months ago, so I don’t have proper data too. Nathan Latka: Yeah. You’ve got other people ahead of you. Obviously, HubSpot’s paying a bunch of active campaign, Marketo, the big ones. And then already stationed, Klaviyo, GetResponse, Pardot, SharpSpring, then you. So, considering how many total are listed here, you’re actually up pretty high, obviously because you’re paying too. But I’d be curious to see how that performs over time. Rytis Lauris: Yeah. Yeah. So I don’t have all that data currently. Yeah. But a part of last click, all first click attribution, we see that G2, Capterra, all this, other listings they do. They do assist in the sales funnel. Maybe it’s not [inaudible 00:12:19] directly to them. But we see that someone has visited. And especially when we have calls with prospective customers, like start calls, demo calls, and we ask, “How did you find about us?” So they usually mention a couple of … “I have Googled. I have read great reviews on G2. And then I booked a demo.” Nathan Latka: And, Rytis, are they sticking? So, your churn, your gross revenue turnover the past 12 months, what’s that at? Rytis Lauris: Yeah. So, monthly, it’s a 0.8% negative, basically. Yeah. Nathan Latka: Sorry, what’s gross? So gross can’t be negative. What’s your gross churn per month? Rytis Lauris: You mean logo or revenue? Nathan Latka: Revenue. Gross revenue churn per month. Rytis Lauris: Yeah, actually, I’m not tracking the data, and that is the most important. Nathan Latka: Okay. But what you’re saying is, net wise, when you add back expansion, you said you’re negative 0.8%. Rytis Lauris: Yes, that’s correct. Nathan Latka: Okay. So that would be negative 9.6 annually, or the inverse of net negative churn is your net revenue retention is about 109%. Rytis Lauris: Yeah, that’s correct. Nathan Latka: Yeah. Okay. Interesting. But you don’t have a general sense of just your gross number is, your gross churn? Rytis Lauris: It’s much higher. Because we managed to expand from a customer, from expansion is pretty good. So gross is around like 5% or so. Nathan Latka: Monthly? Rytis Lauris: Monthly. Yeah. Nathan Latka: Okay. So it’s about 60% annual churn. But what you’re saying is you expand by about 70%. So net revenue is 110, or it’s negative point- Rytis Lauris: Yeah. That’s correct. That’s correct. Yeah. [crosstalk 00:14:04]. Nathan Latka: That’s good. How are you expanding? Rytis Lauris: Yeah. Larger customers, we intend to expand. So we do charge for the size of the list, of your subscribers list. So usually for sustainable established businesses, they grow their list. And therefore by paying a small … It’s another thing, we’re upgrading from standard to pro plan. So 2.5 times more expensive plan. So we’re adding more, better features on pro plan, and convincing them to move pro. Nathan Latka: When you were on last time, you’d raised about $160,000, a little angel round. Have you raised any additional capital? And if so, how much? Rytis Lauris: No, no. Nathan Latka: It’s still 160,000? Rytis Lauris: Yeah, still. And actually, from that, we have paid off a lot, as we had this opportunity and we’re profitable. So we kind of paid off the vast majority of that 160. Nathan Latka: Yeah. So that was debt? Rytis Lauris: Yeah. That was convertible notes. So [crosstalk 00:15:01]. Nathan Latka: So you just paid it off instead of converting? Rytis Lauris: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Nathan Latka: And so when you say profitable, I mean, are you talking 20 grand a month to the bottom line, or a hundred grand? How profitable? Rytis Lauris: Let’s keep it as data for myself. Nathan Latka: I guess what I’m really asking is are you letting money build up in the bank account, or are you staying right about at breakeven? Rytis Lauris: No. No. I mean, that’s okay. I mean, we are reinvesting a lot. So our goal is just to grow. But, yeah, I mean, it’s more than just breakeven. Nathan Latka: Okay. So, I mean, can we say more than 10% EBITDA margin monthly? Rytis Lauris: Yes. We can say. Nathan Latka: Okay. You know me. I push, but I won’t push you harder, because I like you. Because you listen to the show. All right. So more than 10% on 550,000 a month means your bank is growing by about $50,000 in cash every month. Potentially way more than that. Rytis Lauris: That’s the math. And you’re good at math. Nathan Latka: Rytis, what about teams today, how many people? Rytis Lauris: 51. Nathan Latka: Rytis Lauris: For salespeople? Nathan Latka: Yeah. Okay. How many quota carrying sales rep? Rytis Lauris: Yeah. And a part of only one. We have only one. Nathan Latka: Okay. How many engineers? Rytis Lauris: And, the part of that, we do have a program. We kind of constantly increase our salaries, and it’s linked with the company results. So, every quarter, we have a goal for our growth, MRR growth in general. And then if we achieve that goal, so the salaries grow again, each team leader is agreeing on kind of individual programs. Rytis Lauris: So what each employee expect the salary to grow in one year, and then we divide in four quarters. And each quarter we do, with inside the company, publicly declare all of the numbers, like our MRR, our churn, our new business MR, etc, etc. And if we achieve those goals, salaries are constantly growing. Nathan Latka: Interesting. Now, if you grow a salary, that’s fixed cost. Are you paying this out as a bonus, or are salaries actually increasing? Rytis Lauris: Yeah. It’s salary actually increasing. Nathan Latka: So, I mean, don’t, you get to a point where people are making a million dollars a year? Rytis Lauris: Not yet, but if we are going to be heading there. So really kind of sometime ago, I remember myself and my co-founder were talking that we would like to have ability to pay like Netflix does, paying the best salaries in the market, and hiring the best talents in the market. So, at that time, that was not possible for us. But we kind of heading towards that direction. It’s still going to take some time, but that’s our dream to have best talents. Nathan Latka: How many engineers are on the team? Rytis Lauris: So let’s say half of the team is somehow related to products, like engineers we have, engineers, product managers, designers, etc. And then the other half is somehow related to administrative, or go to market, customer operations, etc. Nathan Latka: Yep. Now, Rytis, before we wrap up with a famous five, I mean, it sounds like you’re doing 75 customers … Sorry, 75 bucks a month, 7,200 customers, 540 a month, or about 6.5 million in terms of ARR run rate right now. I love the fact that you’re bootstrapped, you’re cashflow positive. Nathan Latka: I mean, someone would see this as a really great asset to add to their portfolio. I mean, if someone came and offered you something like 50 million bucks to buy the company in 9 or 10X valuation, would you be able to resist selling at that price? Rytis Lauris: Yes, we did resist. Nathan Latka: Okay. What- Rytis Lauris: A few months ago. Nathan Latka: What was the actual offer? And was it verbal, or an actual term sheet? Rytis Lauris: I mean, I kind of disclosed all the data. But, yeah, valuation was something like … The multiple was similar to what you have mentioned. Nathan Latka: Was it all cash, or more like a stock deal? Rytis Lauris: Mix. Nathan Latka: Okay. It was a mix. Okay. Interesting. And was it from a strategic or a private equity firm? Rytis Lauris: A strategic. Nathan Latka: Okay, good. Rytis Lauris: Yeah, actually, currently we have for three offers in a row. We had three offers in a row. So, private equities, they didn’t come with that good offer, let’s say. And strategic was with the best offer, but we stepped down. So we strongly believe that it’s just the beginning of our [inaudible 00:19:21] journey. Nathan Latka: If that 50 million-ish offer had been all cash, instead of a combination of cash and stock, would you have been more likely to take it? I mean, look, because the upside here is let’s say you get with a company that’s much larger than you, and you can grow OmniSend much faster. You could still essentially have upside for you and the team, inside of a bigger company. It’s just a question of, strategically, is that something you want to do or not? Rytis Lauris: No. No. I mean, we see a lot of opportunities in the changing market, as we believe that marketing automation is really going into verticals, and e-commerce is growing by itself. And MailChimp has moved from e-commerce vertical to all in one tool for S&B. So we didn’t have that huge push of it. We used to have from the market leader, which is MailChimp. It’s one thing. Rytis Lauris: So I never think we kind of have started feeling that it’s really taking off. Our brand awareness has increased, and etc, etc. So we kind of still feel that it’s just the beginning of- Nathan Latka: What if that deal sounded something like this? It was Shopify making the offer. And they said, “Rytis, listen, we’ve decided we want to get into the email game. We’re buying a company in the email space. We’d love for it to be you. But you’ve got to accept 50 million in cash. Otherwise, we’re going to go buy one of your competitors, and we’re going to remove you from our app store.” Rytis Lauris: I hope it would never happen. Nathan Latka: You’d sell. You’d sell to Shopify, if that was the term. Rytis Lauris: I mean, it’s like a mafia deal. Either you take my money or you take my bullet. So, in that case, I would probably take your money instead of a bullet, of course. Nathan Latka: I like that. That’s a good analogy. All right. Let’s wrap up with the famous five. Number one, what’s your favorite book? Rytis Lauris: Hard Thing About Hard Things, the same as one year ago. Nathan Latka: Number two, is there a CEO you’re following or studying? Rytis Lauris: Yeah, a lot of them. Currently, no one specific. Nathan Latka: Number three, what’s your favorite online tool for building your company, besides your own? Rytis Lauris: ChartMogul is good, and GCU is great. Nathan Latka: Yep. Number four, how many hours of sleep do you get every night? Rytis Lauris: Six to seven. Nathan Latka: And what’s your situation? Married? Single? Kids? Rytis Lauris: Married. One kid, three years old, boy. Nathan Latka: I love that. All right. And how old are you? Rytis Lauris: 36. Nathan Latka: Rytis Lauris: Build a SaaS product. Nathan Latka: Guys, OmniSend, fricking love this. 7,200 customers paying 75 bucks a month, doing $550,000 a month in revenue, from $180,000 just a year ago, basically bootstrapped, which I love. So you’re doing about 6.5 million bucks in AR, really in the SMB space, relying on Shopify as a partner, launching now in G2 Crowd and other markets, to try and add additional customers per month. Nathan Latka: Currently, adding about 1200 new trials per month, 400 new paying customers, as they look to scale. Payback period, about three months. Again, healthy economics. They do have high churn, 60% annually. But they more than make up for that with expansion of 70%. So 110% net revenue retention on their entire cohort, 51 folks on the team, as they look to continue to scale. Rytis, thanks for taking us to the top. Rytis Lauris: Thanks, Nate. And see you in one year.