How B2B Marketing Agency Fullfunnel.io CEO Used $250K 2020 ARR to Fund SaaS Startup

Nathan Latka:

Hello everyone, my guest today is Andrei Zinkevich. He is the founder of FullFunnel.io and ROIplan, marketing, planning platform. He lives and breathes B2B marketing all the way since back 2007. He’s the author of B2B LinkedIn Content Marketing, on how to generate high quality leads on LinkedIn without cold messaging ads. It did very well in terms of books. We’re excited to chat with him today. Andrei, you’re ready to take us to the top?

Andrei Zinkevich:

Yeah, exactly. Thanks a lot for inviting me. Thanks a lot for having me on your show.

Nathan Latka:

You bet. So let’s pick one to focus on FullFunnel.io and ROIplan, which one of these did more revenue in 2020?

Andrei Zinkevich:

FullFunnel.io because RIOplan is still a startup that should be validated this year. So we can touch on it, but let’s chat about FullFunnel.io.

Nathan Latka:

Okay, great. And, what does FullFunnel.io do? What’s the revenue model?

Andrei Zinkevich:

So it’s a consultancy and in the last quarter we also added a subscription product called Full Funnel Academy, where we train B2B marketers with a focus on growing B2B companies with complex and long sales cycles. But basically the key revenue comes from consultant projects.

Nathan Latka:

And how much consulting revenue did you do in 2020?

Andrei Zinkevich:

So you know, we have a couple of services. One, let’s say, what our key service is, partnering business B2B marketing and sales teams. We have a job that team expansion, or let’s say, as an advisor. And at the same time we are partnering this year with European accelerators like IMA [inaudible 00:01:41] Flanders in Antwerp and Belgium. And basically that’s another product where we train startups on this areas, which belonged to our key expertise. So when it comes to consultant projects we accomplished around, if I’m correct, 27 projects last year. And in terms of collaborating with startups from these accelerators with Trent or Coach, let me calculate the right figure, so it’s like 51 startups in total.

Nathan Latka:

And under what does that translate in terms of revenue last year and on the consulting basis?

Andrei Zinkevich:

So we finished last year almost at 250K a year US revenue, basically for two man band. I believe that is good.

Nathan Latka:

And when did you launch the software business ROIplan?

Andrei Zinkevich:

Actually, I launched it last year. I came up with an idea, so I found a technical co-founder and basically we created a better version of the product last February. I mean 2020 February. And I started to validate the product, but my idea wasn’t that good. At least it wasn’t meeting the expectations of the market. So I did around 50 beta tests and collected the feedback from different verticals, from different job profiles and basically figure out who should be the ideal customer profile for MVP product and what exactly MVP should include. And basically it took us almost a year to create this MVP, which I am working on right now. So basically January and February of 2021 is exactly the period where I’m focused on growing ROIplan.

Nathan Latka:

How much equity did you give your technical co-founder?

Andrei Zinkevich:

So it’s 50 50.

Nathan Latka:

You split it 50 50. And are you both paying yourselves or you’re both working for free?

Andrei Zinkevich:

Well, we’re working for free, so it’s a self funded startup credit on our funds.

Nathan Latka:

And when do you, I see on your pricing page, you have your pricing listed at 14.99 per month for RIOplan.io. When do you think you’ll get your first paying customer and where will they come from?

Andrei Zinkevich:

Actually we have paying customers but [crosstalk 00:04:08]

Nathan Latka:

How many paying customers?

Andrei Zinkevich:

We have three paying customers, but they bought lifetime deals. Actually, as I mentioned, I was [inaudible 00:04:14]

Nathan Latka:

What did they pay for the lifetime deal, Andrei?

Andrei Zinkevich:

It depends, really. So the cost, there are different types of deals. For one of the customers I suggested that as well, ongoing marketing and support. So it’s a marketing agency from Italy. And I suggested an ongoing one time per month, I’m joining their team and helping them with their projects that they’re delivering to their clients. So that they are planned for lifetime deal for the entire time [crosstalk 00:04:45]

Nathan Latka:

How much did they pay for that?

Andrei Zinkevich:

Yeah, 150 euros. This is their monthly price for one person.

Nathan Latka:

Sorry, hold on. Sorry. Is it 150 a month they’re paying or are they paying one time 150.

Andrei Zinkevich:

No, no. It’s 150 euros per month, but it’s a lifetime price for them. For all [crosstalk 00:05:03]

Nathan Latka:

So they can keep paying you. They can keep paying 150 bucks a month, but they could also cancel and pay you nothing.

Andrei Zinkevich:

Yes, yes, exactly. So, I mean, this is a lifetime price, but at the same time, two customers from this beta tests bought a lifetime deal, just one paid 150 euros for beta version but we’ve had just one feature.

Nathan Latka:

And they pay that every month or they just paid at one time.

Andrei Zinkevich:

That was a one time payment. And then on the second round of beta tests, which had the second customer who pay 200 euros.

Nathan Latka:

There’s a lot of folks listening right now that are dying to get their first dollar of revenue. So understanding how you set up those first 50 beta tests last year is really valuable. How did you set them up?

Andrei Zinkevich:

So basically I have current assets, I was trying them and I’m still writing them a little bit market or some founders community since 2017. And basically the launch was pretty easy because I was chatting with the most active community members. And of course I know most of them. I was reaching out to people.

Nathan Latka:

Can you name, Andrei, some of those communities, what’s your biggest one?

Andrei Zinkevich:

Do you mean community members?

Nathan Latka:

No, the communities you run. The name of the community.

Andrei Zinkevich:

The B2B marketers and founders on Facebook.

Nathan Latka:

What platform on Facebook. Okay.

Andrei Zinkevich:

On Facebook, yes.

Nathan Latka:

How many members are in that group?

Andrei Zinkevich:

So it’s 4K. But basically just to give you an idea, it’s not the biggest one. But I believe this is one of the most quality communities, just because on the feedback of community members. They don’t allow everybody to jump into the community despite that it’s a free community. So we decline, let’s say 80% of inquiries. So basically I was reaching out to people with who I have established a good relationship, and I knew that companies might be ICP for ROIplan. And that’s it just because of [crosstalk 00:07:00]

Nathan Latka:

When did you launch the group? It’s at 3,900 members right now. When did you launch the group? What year?

Andrei Zinkevich:

So it was the end of 2017.

Nathan Latka:

And when did you write the B2B LinkedIn Content Marketing book?

Andrei Zinkevich:

It was the beginning of 2019.

Nathan Latka:

I see. And how did the book do, how many copies did you sell?

Andrei Zinkevich:

So this sold on Gumroad so far 500 copies. On Amazon was sold almost 3000 copies. And before launch and this book had a campaign on product con, but I can’t treat it as a sales revenue cost. That promotion was basically to collect the feedback, before launching the book and we, our product count was sold, if I’m correct around 2000 copies, but the price was something around five bucks.

Nathan Latka:

Yep. Of the book or of ROIplan?

Andrei Zinkevich:

Of the book.

Nathan Latka:

So you sold 500 on Gumroad, 3000 on Amazon and 2000 on product launch. So it’s about 5,500 total copies sold.

Andrei Zinkevich:

Yeah.

Nathan Latka:

That’s great. Congratulations.

Andrei Zinkevich:

Thank you so much.

Nathan Latka:

So, you clearly understand distribution, you’re approaching this from a community first mindset. What I would say is I’m shocked that there aren’t more paying customers on ROIplan because you already have distribution. Why can’t you convince more people that have bought your book, and that are in your community, to pay 15 bucks a month to use ROIplan?

Andrei Zinkevich:

The biggest problem is that I didn’t focus last year on having to promote a ROIplan cost. I don’t know if it’s my mistake, but I was envolved in clients projects. And basically that was the reason why I had a brand that get lead and partnered with my co-founder, what, to the launched full funnel.io. And right now we are moving towards productizing our services and hiring two people to scale.

Nathan Latka:

How many people on the team right now?

Andrei Zinkevich:

So four people.

Nathan Latka:

How many engineers?

Andrei Zinkevich:

For Fullfunnel.io they don’t have engineers. We just, if we need some development help, we invite some of the people from ROIplan dev team.

Nathan Latka:

How many engineers on ROIplan?

Andrei Zinkevich:

Four.

Nathan Latka:

Okay. So there’s four full team members on ROIplan. They’re all engineers.

Andrei Zinkevich:

They are not full time. That’s another deal with ROIplans. So these are not full-time engineers. Basically, only me and co-founder are full-time. But that was for last year, it was a side project. And as I mentioned, we did lots of this beta tests just to collect the feedback to get [crosstalk 00:09:30]

Nathan Latka:

I understand. So Andrei, I just want to understand, on ROIplan, how many are either full-time or part-time currently today?

Andrei Zinkevich:

So as for full-time, we can count me and my co-founder, and for part-time, in place, we have four developers.

Nathan Latka:

So six total?

Andrei Zinkevich:

Yeah.

Nathan Latka:

I see. Okay, great. And how are you, where are your engineers based?

Andrei Zinkevich:

All in Warsaw, in Poland, where I’m from.

Nathan Latka:

And what do you pay a junior engineer in Poland?

Andrei Zinkevich:

So for our senior full stack developer, we are paying 40 bucks per hour. And for our junior engineers, we are paying, depending on the scope, from 25 to 30 bucks.

Nathan Latka:

And where are you getting the money to pay for this? You’re still basically performing consultants.

Andrei Zinkevich:

From the consultancy.

Nathan Latka:

So you’re using consultancy revenue to fuel the building of your SAS company. How do you raised outside capital or are you bootstrapped?

Andrei Zinkevich:

We are bootstrapped.

Nathan Latka:

We love bootstrap. It’s tougher. It’s slower growth, but in the long run it’s usually worth it. Okay. Very cool. Did you have any [crosstalk 00:10:45]

Andrei Zinkevich:

Not at this point, and the reason why because I don’t have a pressure. And as I mentioned, that’s why last year I focused on growing Fullfunnel.io and hit the revenue so we can fund ROIplan. And basically we did exactly what we wanted. I mean, they implemented the features we wanted to implement and listen to the potential customers. And that’s why right now I’m going to monetize with them, bring the new customers to this software.

Nathan Latka:

And what are your total expenses right now for ROIplan?

Andrei Zinkevich:

So in total it’s, I can just open the spreadsheet. It’s like 79000 zloty. It’s our Polish currency. So it’s around 20K euros.

Nathan Latka:

Okay. 20,000 euros per month?

Andrei Zinkevich:

No, no, it’s just all the investments and total of credit.

Nathan Latka:

What did you spend last month on expenses on ROIplan?

Andrei Zinkevich:

It was around 3K.

Nathan Latka:

Okay. Got it. So not too bad. And, and when do you think right now, I mean, you have one person paying 150 bucks a month. That’s really your only recurring right now. I mean, what do you think you can grow to by the end of the year?

Andrei Zinkevich:

So I feel this year we’ll be able to reach at least 100K in annual revenue at the end of the year. So at least this is my goal for this year. If that will be better, I will be happy.

Nathan Latka:

Well, we are all rooting for you. Let’s wrap up here with your famous five. Number one, besides your own. What’s your favorite business book, Andre?

Andrei Zinkevich:

Sorry, can you please repeat? What is my favorite..

Nathan Latka:

Favorite business book.

Andrei Zinkevich:

My favorite business book is called “80/20 Sales and Marketing” and written by Peter Marshall.

Nathan Latka:

Number two, is there a CEO you’re following or studying?

Andrei Zinkevich:

So the CEO who I love is Casey Gray from Gravy. If you know this startup company from US. Basically, I love the style.

Nathan Latka:

What’s the name of the website?

Andrei Zinkevich:

Gravy.

Nathan Latka:

Spell it.

Andrei Zinkevich:

G R a we w Y sorry. Gravy.

Nathan Latka:

G R A Y.

Andrei Zinkevich:

Yeah.

Nathan Latka:

Dot com? Gray.com?

Andrei Zinkevich:

I’m not sure if like.com just a second, let me type and tell you.

Nathan Latka:

Oh, you’re talking. His last name is Gray. Casey gray.com.

Andrei Zinkevich:

I was thinking that you were talking about the company. Casey Gray.

Nathan Latka:

What’s the name? What’s the name of the company, Andrei. That he is building.

Andrei Zinkevich:

Gravy. Gravy.

Nathan Latka:

Can you spell it? G R a

Andrei Zinkevich:

G R a v y.

Nathan Latka:

.com?

Andrei Zinkevich:

I’m not sure if it’s dot com.

Nathan Latka:

Let me see. I’ll look them up. Why do you like him?

Andrei Zinkevich:

It’s like Gravy payments, but I don’t know if the domain is.com. So I love his leadership style and the way how he built his LinkedIn profile. And basically he is, let’s say entrepreneurship mantra. He thought like our key goal for all people who were hired to Gravy, is basically to make a great career and help them to become entrepreneurs. So their goal is to help these people to build personal brands on LinkedIn as well. To establish that [crosstalk 00:14:16]

Nathan Latka:

The website is called Casey, sorry. Gravysolutions.io that’s the URL. Number three. What’s your favorite online tool for building your business?

Andrei Zinkevich:

It depends, because I use marketing tools and I use project management.

Nathan Latka:

Andrei, pick the tool that you use the most.

Andrei Zinkevich:

So it would be Slack.

Nathan Latka:

Slack. Number four. How many hours of sleep to get every night?

Andrei Zinkevich:

Seven.

Nathan Latka:

Okay. And what’s your situation? Married? Single? Kids?

Andrei Zinkevich:

Married. And I have two kids.

Nathan Latka:

Two kids, very good. And how old are you?

Andrei Zinkevich:

I’m 34.

Nathan Latka:

Last question. What’s something you wish you knew when you were 20?

Andrei Zinkevich:

Oh, I wish that I should have believed more in myself and started my entrepreneurship career faster, because I was afraid to do it. But just looking back at my ideas of founding this consultancy business. If I could have started that earlier, I believe I would be much, much more advanced or at least at another point than right now.

Nathan Latka:

Guys, there we have Andre with Fullfunnel.io. It’s an agency you do about a quarter million dollars in revenue last year. He using that agency revenue to build a SAS product called ROIplan.io to help you create, manage and control all of your marketing plans. He’s got a few customers at 150 bucks a month spending $3,000 total right now per month on full expenses to founders for developers based in Warsaw, Poland. Average salary there it’s called between 20 and $40 per hour. No plans to raise capital bootstrap today, looking to scale so that it can potentially go out and hire more engineers to accelerate his product roadmap. Thanks for taking us to the top, Andrei.

Andrei Zinkevich:

Thank you so much for having me today, and it was a pleasure to chat with you.

Nathan Latka:

One more thing before you go, we have a brand new show every Thursday at 1:00 PM central. It’s called shark tank for SAS. We call it deal or bust. One Founder comes on three hungry buyers. They try and do a deal live. And the founder shares backend dashboards, their expenses, their revenue, ARPU, CAC LTV, you name it, they share it. And the buyers try and make a deal live. It is fun to watch every Thursday, 1:00 PM central. Additionally, remember these recorded founder interviews go live. We released them here on YouTube every day at 2:00 PM central, to make sure you don’t miss any of that makes you click the subscribe button below here on YouTube, the big red button, and then click the little bell notification to make sure you get notifications when we do go live. I wouldn’t want you to miss breaking news in the SAS world, whether it’s an acquisition, a big fundraise, a big sale, a big profitability statement or something else.

Nathan Latka:

I don’t want you to miss it. Additionally, if you want to take this conversation deeper and further, we have by far the largest private Slack community for B2B SAS founders. You want to get in there. We’ve probably talked about your tool. If you’re running a company or your firm, if you’re investing. You can go in there and quickly search and see what people are saying. Sign up for [email protected] forward slash Slack. In the meantime, I’m hanging out with you here on YouTube. I’ll be in the comments for the next 30 minutes. Feel free to let me know what you thought about this episode. If you enjoyed it, click the thumbs up. We get a lot of haters that are mad at how aggressive I am on these shows, but I do it so that we can all learn. We have to counter those people. We got to push them away, put the thumbs up below to counter them and know that I appreciate you guys’ support. All right, I’ll be in the comments. See ya.